Date: Thu, 30 Sep 1999 16:12:39 -0700
From: "Robert G. Grimes" <grimes@fcol.com>
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Whales and the Memetic Group definitions
"Wade T.Smith" wrote:
Snipped for brevity
> Along with, well, just about everything else.... - right now, I see
> genetics and the perspective of socio-biology, and see no need for memes.
> My rationale here is- if birdsong is memetic, then the term is
> meaningless- birdsong to me is totally behavioral and innate- the bird
> 'has-to' do it. _If_ that is a memetic process, then I see no need for a
> boundary between any behavior and what a being 'has-to' do.
>
> Identity....
>
Again, the magic word, identity, but I won't start on that again. It was the
statement about the bird song that, "the bird has to do it," which reminds me
of something I wrote some time back when presented with the argument that the
plant kingdom "doesn't feel pain because they don't possess a 'nervous
system.' " This was said by a very nice gentleman who was an animal rights
person and a vegetarian (wearing synthetic material belt, shoes, etc., to
emphasize his sincerity) and I posed the question, "Have you ever asked a
Rose?" He couldn't properly respond to that but agreed to several drinks
afterward (apparently whiskey doesn't feel pain, too and, after a few of
those, I don't think he did either). Thus, I guess the proper response to
Wade's statement is, "Have you ever asked a parrot?"
Just the other day I taught my little Lhasa Apso puppy how to sit up and beg.
It only took a short period of less than an hour and now she is totally
irresistible and has extended the teaching from getting food (the original
reward) to other things like a good massage, the scratching of her tummy with
the toe of my shoe, etc. She stands there, confidently awaiting what ever
particular reward she wants, and most of the time I am intelligent enough to
realize just what it is. So, we won't put down the other animal species just
because they haven't written "Mein Kampf" and slaughtered a lot of folks for
various reasons like some other sentient folks :>)... (But I still don't buy
the Whale stuff either)
Cordially,
Bob
-- Bob Grimeshttp://members.aol.com/bob5266/ http://pages.hotbot.com/edu/bobinjax/ http://www.phonefree.com/Scripts/cgiParse.exe?sID=28788 Jacksonville, Florida Bob5266@aol.com robert.grimes@excite.com bobinjax@hotbot.com
Bobgrimes@zdnetmail.com
Man is not in control, but the man who knows he is not in control is more in control...
Quoth the Raven, "Nevermore....."
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