From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: i-memes and m-memes
Date: Wed, 1 Sep 1999 14:05:52 -0400
In-Reply-To: <2CDFE2C8F598D21197C800C04F911B2034935D@DELTA.newhouse.akzonobel.nl>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Gatherer, D. (Derek)
> Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 6:21 AM
> To: 'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'
> Subject: RE: i-memes and m-memes
>
>
> Aaron:
> Do you mean Primary qualities (i.e., that it reflects red wavelengths of
> light, which is Ontology) or secondary qualities (i.e., the sensation of
> redness experienced in observation, which is Phenomenology)?
>
> Derek:
> the latter
> > how are qualia replicated?
>
> Aaron:
> Badly. Idea, even from experience, is only representation of Ontology. But
> such is mutation. If you are referring to primary qualities, that
> is. I was.
> I argued that all objects and events are memetic. The brain being no
> exception.
>
> I never dealt with any transmission of secondary qualities.
>
> Derek:
> That's what I'm asking you to do. So again I ask: how are qualia
> replicated?
>
> Aaron:
> But It is
> surprising that transmission of experience within the same brain would be
> problematic. Because that would be the issue, considering that they where
> looking for a meme in process in the brain. A needlessly muddled
> enterprise,
> I argue.
>
> Derek:
> I don't understand the above paragraph at all.
Other posters wanted to detect a meme actrive in the brain. That might be an
encoding of records in the brain into a redundant record somewhere else in
the brain. Thus I responded with surprise that transmission of experience
within the same brain would be deemed problematic.
>
> Aaron:
> Assuming that any idea or experience defies communication, that still does
> not remove it from Memetics under my frame work. I assert that all is
> memetic, but dormancy is the norm. An unseen pebble in an
> uncharted cave is
> memetic, no less than a lost manuscript, but likewise dormant, in the same
> way that a falling piano is a very bad airplane. Aerodynamics
> does not only
> deal with successful gliders, but with all things. Likewise Memetics must
> admit poor or unlucky replicators. Thus, if secondary qualities are truly
> inexpressible, that will not be problematic.
>
> Derek:
> Yes, it will because if they don't replicate, they aren't replicators.
There are no self replicators, only adaptive replicatees. Memetic
replication is the success of a passive parasite, in being copied (perceived
and remembered) by some creature, a repicater.
>
> > Derek:
> > Not everything can be a replicator, because not everything can
> replicate.
>
> Aaron:
> Wrong. They are bad or unlucky replicators.
>
> Derek:
> So if replication rate is zero, is it a non-replicator or an unlucky one?
Yes, perhaps like a perfectly infectious virus newer thawed from the ice
flow. Then again, a phenomena, even well exposed, may prove poorly adapted,
memetically. It may be imperceptable or forgetable. If it is only mildly
confusing, it may still mutate.
>
>
> Aaron:
> But no non-replicators. No more
> than there are losers in Vegas! There are only patrons who have not yet
> found their winning table!
>
> Derek:
>
> well, that last sentence shows the untenability of your thesis. Of course
> there are losers at Vegas!!! Are you advertising Vegas???
No. I was making a facetious expression of a serious point. A poor choice in
memetic engineering where irony is absent.
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
>
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit