Date: Sun, 29 Aug 1999 18:54:26 +0100
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
From: Robin Faichney <robin@faichney.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: facets of meme-talk
In-Reply-To: <37C9656B.C92019C3@pacbell.net>
In message <37C9656B.C92019C3@pacbell.net>, Bill Spight
<bspight@pacbell.net> writes
>Dear Robin,
>
>RP:
>
>>To say that something IS
>>RP information seems about as enlightening as saying that something IS matter
>or IS
>>RP energy.
>
>Robin:
>
>A better formulation is to say that both genes and memes are formal
>entities, like those used in logic, mathematics and other formal
>systems, rather than physical ones.
>
>Bill:
>
>Simple abstraction, such as a relatively short bit string or list of
>propositions, is inadequate because of the aspect of meaning. The question has
>to do with interpretation.
It does indeed, but I said nothing about short bit strings or lists of
propositions.
>Second, the manifestation of memes in context is typically part of
their
>replication (if they get replicated). That is not true of the
contextual
>phenotypic effects of genes, which are irrelevant to their replication.
Unlike
>the formalizations of most mathematics and logic, an adequate
formalization of
>memes must be contextual.
I'm not saying we need a formalization of memes, I'm saying the concept
is already, necessarily, a formal one, meaning (among other things) that
memes are not physical things.
>My notion of the web of meaning is not just a metaphor, an alternative to the
>hermeneutic circle. I think that formalization of cultural entities (memes)
>needs to be in terms of a network (web). To be sure, a network can be
>represented as a list of propositions or a bit string, but not in a short,
>simple way.
So far as I understand what you're saying, I agree with it, but it seems
to me all that is covered by the notion of encoding. The
context/network is (at least part of) the code.
-- Robin Faichney Get Your FREE Information at http://www.conscious-machine.com=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit