From: Dale Fletter <dfletter@sirius.com>
To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Parody of Science
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 16:26:48 -0700
Well let's see how far I get before I make a total fool of myself.
Some people would like to suggest that all learned behavior that is not
genetic is memetic. I am not one of them since I believe memetics is most
immediately understandable to me as a supplement to genetics for the more
rapid evolution of societies than could be possible via the genome alone. I
don't try to argue the point since I just take this as a premise that there
is behavior which is memetic and other behavior that is not. At this time I
am not prepared to state that all behavior might not eventually be
explainable via memetic theories only that I have no interest in pursuing
such a grand thesis. I would not consider a kick reflex to be behavior
since it is exhibited even when no higher brain functions are involved.
Perhaps you could consider it memetics but my personal semantics don't.
I think it is interesting that you think of sexual behavior as a purely
genetic one. Sex among humans is very much a learned response as anyone
hanging out in a singles bar finds out much to their frustration. The basic
functions of copulation may seem simple, the various dances that occur
before this event can occur are largely learned and necessary if the
genetic material is to be passed. Societies differ in how they shape the
sexual behavior and later in life these behaviors are difficult to modify.
As a specific example of what I am thinking about, consider child and
spousal abuse. These are specific behaviors that passed through early
childhood experiences and are often only changed with some form of therapy.
Yet as a society the concept that children and spouses should not be abused
also infuses the society. Some individuals will have both memes and are put
in a state of internal conflict which may never be totally resolved. Yet
over time the incidence of the aberant meme and its expression will
diminish if the society as a whole continues to reinforce the replacement
meme. I don't know that I believe that the concept of fair treatment of
children and spouses is a meme in itself but once it becomes part of that
person's belief structure I feel it is a meme.
Let me also point out that I don't discount the idea that there may be
memes that pass horizontally through a society. Things like fascism and
communism come to mind. But I believe that it would be as wrong to
attribute such complex behavior to a single meme passed within a generation
as it would be to attribute a forest fire to a single match. The
environment must exist for that single meme to spread and that is often the
accumulation of memes over many generations. Rather societal behavior such
as fascism is closer to the cascade of sand that occurs when one more grain
of sand falls on the side of a pile.
On Friday, August 13, 1999 12:01 PM, Mark M. Mills [SMTP:mmills@htcomp.net]
wrote:
> Dale,
>
> At 10:38 AM 8/13/99 -0700, you wrote:
> >Sexual
> >behavior memes would be passed long before a full awareness of social
> >status and ambition would exert their influence. ...
> > It is only the non-memetic behavior that could be
> >horizontally transmitted.
>
> I'm interested in your use of 'non-memetic behavior.' Can you give an
> example of this?
>
> My first guess would have been 'genetic behavior' or 'instinct,' but you
> give an example of sexual memes. If there was any area to describe as
> 'non-memetic, genetic, instinctual' behavior, it would be sex.
>
> I wonder what is left for 'non-memetic behavior'? Things like 'kick'
> reflexes?
>
> Mark
>
>
>
>
> ===============================================================
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit