From: "Aaron Agassi" <agassi@erols.com>
To: <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Memetic engineering challenge
Date: Wed, 7 Jul 1999 13:08:15 -0400
In-Reply-To: <Pine.OSF.3.95q.990707094143.15867F-100000@morse.umd.edu>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [mailto:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]On Behalf
> Of Lawrence H. de Bivort
> Sent: Wednesday, July 07, 1999 9:54 AM
> To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: Memetic engineering challenge
>
>
> On Wed, 7 Jul 1999, Aaron Agassi wrote:
>
> >> Agassi:
> >> >Shall I offer a meme design challenge?
>
> de Bivort:
> >> Excellent, please do.
> >> (Reservation: if the response calls for discussion that is
> best not done
> >> publicly, I'll avoid doing so.)
> >I will be nothing less than thrilled to get anywhere near a point where
> >secrecy is either warranted or desired!
>
> We've been concerned about the public discussion of memes from day one,
> but that may be because our immediate interest was in their practical
> applications. I worry enormously about several aspects:
>
> 1. That the 'bad guys' will end up possessing memetic engineering
> capbilities
I fear that you are too late.
>
> 2. That poorly designed or destructive memes will end up being released
> though not with ill intention
I fear that you are too late.
>
> 3. That so many memes will be released that the memes _we_ release will
> have a tougher time disseminating themselves.
Good point.
>
> (snip)
> >enablers. Resistance to evil, however, networks ineffectually.
> The proposed
> >set of meme must be an organizational principle to resist, expose,
> >undermine, and denounce malice and domination, from the petty to the
> >flagrant. It should also be an organizational principle for constructive
> >play, that includes resistance to jealous sabotage.
>
> OK, this seems clear enough. We may end up with two memes, acting in
> partnership.
Or even a system of associated memes.
>
> Now, by what measure would you want to have the success of these memes
> evaluated?
God question. Are there observational and Sociological criteria that can be
borrowed?
>
> Also, some additional questions for you to answer:
>
> - What is your target population?
Perhaps a test group will be targeted. A group badly riddled with vicious
cliquishness.
Meme:
We are The Clique Busters TM.
>
> - Who do you want NOT to 'get' the meme?
Good question. I welcome positive improvement in anybody's behavior. So, is
there anyone who should not be infected? Even people who have manners, and
react against underhanded crap, might welcome these memes into their tool
kit.
>
> - Might there be any down-side to accomplishing the goal of the meme?
> Would anything of value be lost?
I actually don't think so. There are perceived values however, in the
preexisting meme complexes I seek to undermine. That domination equals
protection, for example. That sexual interest is threatening, when in fact
it is jealous rage and persecution ensuing, that condition the fear. Etc.
>
> - Might the meme, defined as you have done so and nothing more, create any
> secondary or tertiary impacts that would be undesirable?
I see none. But, in case I am mistaken, your vigilance will be appreciated.
>
> - Is the goal of the meme sufficiently worthy to justify the effort needed
> to develop, release and monitor it?
Hell, yes!
>
> Lawrence de Bivort
> The Memetics Group
>
>
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> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit