Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:06:44 +0000
From: Bruce Howlett <bhowlett@metz.une.edu.au>
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Is a meme a thing?
Jay,
I noticed the spectacular lack of response to your question, so I will
venture a reply as I have no academic or public reputation to worry
about.
Yes. A meme is a thing in that the definition of *thing* includes a
*concept considered as being a separate entity*. The question as to
whether a meme is a meme when it is written on paper or in other coded
form is often hotly debated. The more accepted definition of a meme
includes the ability to replicate as the major criterion. The argument
goes along the lines that when a *meme* is isolated on paper or in
digital form it cannot replicate, therefor it is not a meme. To be a
meme, the host medium of a human brain must be involved.
I prefer to think of a meme as a *thought pattern*, rather than just a
*thought*. Therefor a thought pattern in transit could be identified as
a meme is stasis. Many analogies have been made with biological
phenomena such as a seed waiting to germinate.
The other main argument revolves around identifying memes as summarised
by list guru Paul Marsden:
<This distinction between replicanda (behaviour) and memes (symbolic
representations (i.e. information)) is IMHO, useful but would it not be
better if your definition explicitly referred to your conclusion as to
whether the meme is a replicator or simply the replicated. (THE source
of
confusion)> (Subject: Re: Memes are Interactor Date:Wed, 8 Apr 1998
12:08:40 +0100 From:"Paul Marsden" <PaulMarsden@email.msn.com>)
He concludes:
<My working definition (comments and (constructive) criticism invited)
defines memes thus:
"MEME: a unit of sociocultural replication composed of a functional
pattern
of information whose selection in a given environment depends on its'
relative fitness, where fitness is defined by the structural relation to
the
"ownership" of the means of transmission, and where "ownership" is
defined
by the relative power of sources of variation within that structure to
determine the nature and direction of information flow.">
Being in the *behaviourist* camp I am partial to this definition. You
may have just restarted the definition war. Your question, however, was
confusing because an abstraction can be a thing. I think you meant, is
it *physical* or is it *abstract*? Depends on your perception.
Tim Rhodes gives us another perception:
<A meme is not a configuration neuro-synaptic circuitry, it is _what
results_
from that configuration. Just as the same computer program can be
written
using several different types of code, so the same meme can be said to
be
held in different individuals (who hold the same ideas), regardless of
whether or not they hold such ideas as a results of similiar synaptic
links.
Searching for the "location" of a specific meme in the brain is, as
such, a
fruitless task. Even if you could find the cluster of synapses
responsible
for a given meme in one individual, there is no guarantee that you will
find
the same cluster, in the same place, in another person who holds the
same or
similar ideas. Similar programs do not require similar code in
different
systems. (Or, indeed, even within the same system!)> (Subject:Re: List
of meme definitions Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:06:37 -0700)
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Bruce.
Jay Hanson wrote:
>
> Dawkins: "a meme should be regarded as a unit of information residing in the
> brain."
>
> Is a meme a thing (or collection of things), or is it an abstraction (or
> property, or
> idea)?
>
> Jay
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
> see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit