Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 11:09:38 +0200
From: Mario Vaneechoutte <Mario.Vaneechoutte@rug.ac.be>
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Constructive discussion
Paul Marsden wrote:
> Mario wrote
>
> >The last thing I would defend is pure mental memetics, and my reaction
> >against Gatherer's suggestions is that he (and Paul) is likely to make the
> >opposite error by studying only behaviour and artefacts, which are not
> >comprehensible and not interesting when you don't take into account the
> reasons
> >why people behave this or that way.
>
> This is a good point - and it is an issue that can be resolved by seeing how
> the data fits the theory.
>
> You, argue that "behaviour and artefacts...are not comprehensible and not
> interesting when you don't take into account the reasons why people behave
> this or that way don't."
>
> I argue the polar opposite, that we can understand much human behaviour
> without reference to any internal beliefs, that imitation
> is_a_sufficient_mechanism_ to_ explain_ much_ human_behaviour. And
> critically, I argue that this is an interesting and *legitimate* domain of
> investigation for memetics (contra Lynch) for all the reasons I have already
> bored you with.
>
> I am not saying that what you, or Aaron, or Derek or anyone else is doing is
> not memetics, all I am saying is that what I am doing - that is studying how
> culture spreads through the social world through a process of variation,
> imitation (replication) and selection is memetics. As a corollary to this I
> add that the only methodological possibility currently open to me in
> operationalising this memetic program is to measure objectified culture,
> i.e. behaviour (including verbal behaviour).
OK. We are having a constructive discussion this way, after some
misunderstandings. The 'including verbal behaviour' is certainly a good link
between the different approaches, since it states that we can ask questions.Can
we agree that these questions can address attitudes towards statements and that
these questions can be used to study which statements are within a person's
'mental library'?
>
>
> Paul Marsden
> Graduate Research Centre in the Social Sciences
> University of Sussex
> e-mail PaulMarsden@msn.com
> tel/fax (44) (0) 117 974 1279
>
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission:
> http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/
>
> ===============================================================
> This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
> Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
> For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
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-- Mario Vaneechoutte Department Clinical Chemistry, Microbiology & Immunology University Hospital De Pintelaan 185 9000 GENT Belgium Phone: +32 9 240 36 92 Fax: +32 9 240 36 59 E-mail: Mario.Vaneechoutte@rug.ac.beJ. Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/
The memetic origin of language: humans as musical primates http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1998/vol2/vaneechoutte_m&skoyles_jr.html
=============================================================== This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing) see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit