From: Stadtruckerova <jana.stadtruckerova@strategy.gov.sk>
To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: memetics-digest V1 #37
Date: Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:52:08 +0200
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Josip, wrote interesting comments about quality, which gives quantity of =
freedom to individuals and technology allows creation of its particular =
entities.=20
Technologies, which allow to people creation, are innovation, new =
inventions. Innovations make very unstable environment. Innovations =
exist in dynamic equilibrium, which is difficult to model and understand =
in classical linear thinking. Discussion in this list is concerned of =
memes. I think memes are non-linear, complex entities, which can be =
replicate and transmit via some vehicles.
Jana, =20
=20
-----P=F9vodn=ED zpr=E1va-----
Od: fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk [SMTP:fmb-majordomo@mmu.ac.uk]
Odesl=E1no: 30. apr=EDl 1998 10:02
Komu: memetics-digest@alpheratz.cpm.aca.mmu.ac.uk
P=F8edm=ECt: memetics-digest V1 #37
memetics-digest Thursday, 30 April 1998 Volume 01 : =
Number 037
----------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Josip Pajk <j.p.pajk@usa.net>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:42:48
Subject: RE: Memes are Interactors
At 15:42 28.04.98 +0200, Zoom wrote:
>Josip, The first time I heard about the =
"quality--->quantity--->quality" feedback loop was from author Paul Zane =
Pilzer in his book "Unlimited Wealth" (published 1991).=20
>One of his examples was about television sets. A family can afford to =
buy their first TV, and buys a small black and white one. Then they =
eventually buy a second one for their bedroom (increase quantity). Then =
they buy their first color TV to replace the first B&W one (increase =
quality), then after seeing the vast improvements the new color TV has =
over the B&W one, they eventually replace their second B&W to a color =
one also (quantity again). Then they improve quality again by getting a =
larger screen TV, then a second for the bedroom etc.. and this cycle =
will continue.=20
>
>The above is just an example. The same could be said for dress suits =
(or anything else): I buy my first dress suit at a low price, then when =
it comes time to buy a second, I will probably increase the quality (I =
obviously won't lower the quality). The more suits I buy, they will =
either be of the same or higher quality. If my first suit was bought at =
a very low price, and I decide to spend some money and buy a =
custom-tailored suit at Brooks Brothers, after I have bought it, I have =
raised the standard for myself, and the rest of my suit purchases will =
be of equal or greater value (quality).
>
>I don't know if this helps at all.. but those are the examples I have =
heard/seen/experienced concerning quality-quantity.
>
>Zoom=20
Thank you for these examples Zoom. This is much like to what is =
happening with PC's. The computer you bought two years ago is now =
obsolete (slow, low on memory) so you are "forced" to buy a new one in =
order to be able to run any of the new SW packages on the market.
Stanislaw Lem wrote in his book "Summa Technologiae" (III edition, 1974) =
that the first sign of an imminent dead of some kind of systems =
(technology) is their growth to such extents that are hard to control =
efficiently. He gave the examples of the dinosaurs, zeppelins, steam =
engines. We can see other examples in: the Roman (British) and other =
empires, or even in the Large Scale Integration technology of =
transistors.
As I see, quality is the "quantity" of freedom a species (technology) =
allows for the creation of its particular entities (individuals). If =
this freedom is greater (but not too much to make the system unstable) =
its individuals will search for survival solutions in a broader space, =
so there is a bigger chance that they (and their species itself) will =
survive. On the other hand, species that do not allow such extents of =
individual freedom must rely on their quantity in order to survive. Such =
individuals are more "rigid", they are not flexible and adaptable like =
those that have more freedom, thus they are more susceptible to =
environmental changes. Only their great number (quantity) can assure =
that some of them will survive environmental catastrophes and continue =
the lineage.
Josip
http://members.tripod.com/~THREENITY/index.html
____________________________________________________________________
Get free e-mail and a permanent address at =
http://www.netaddress.com/?N=3D1
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
------------------------------
From: "Tim Rhodes" <proftim@speakeasy.org>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:45:49 -0700
Subject: Re: 'Experience' as 'substrate'
Chris wrote:
>I wonder if we might usefully describe a meme as a self-replicating
>'pattern of experience'. A certain pattern of sensory experience may
>carry a sensual 'reward' such that the experiencing organism is
>motivated to behave in such a way as to attempt to _reproduce_ that
>sensory reward. Variation occurs when such behavior patterns have
>'unintended' experiential consequences, which must then be 'adjusted
>for' by further behavior modifications by the affected nervous system.
>Thus 'experience', as a _self-designing_ cybernetic operation of the
>(in our case 'human') nervous system, becomes the 'substrate' in which
>'memes', in conjunction with their generative behavior patterns and
>the nervous systems which execute them, are 'evolved'.
>
>What do you think?
Sounds like your on the right track, to me!
- -Tim Rhodes
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
------------------------------
From: "Tim Rhodes" <proftim@speakeasy.org>
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:42:18 -0700
Subject: Re: Memes are Interactors
Josip Pajk wrote:
>I wrote in one of my previous comments that GOOD or BAD are (receiver)
host-related categories. That is, what is good for me have not to be as =
good
for you or for anyone else. But, there are two types of quality that =
must be
identified here:
>-The CONTENT quality of the message
>-The quality of the message PACKAGE
[snip]
>The CONTENT quality is the only long-term issue on which memes can rely =
on.
Packages are not only influenced by current fashion trends, cultural or
educational differences among potential receiving hosts, but also by the
expression (production, packaging) capabilities of the sender host.
In what way does packaging effect content (and vise versa)? I suspect =
that
the relationship is in some ways dynamic and interrelated--packaging
informing content and content, packaging to a degree. Does one shape =
the
other?
- -Tim Rhodes
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit
------------------------------
End of memetics-digest V1 #37
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------ =_NextPart_000_01BD7426.066F0400--
===============================================================
This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
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see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit