From: Robin Wood <robinwood@genesys.co.uk>
To: "'memetics@mmu.ac.uk'" <memetics@mmu.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Self as construct
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 18:41:43 +0100
Right on Bill! 100 billion neurons and 5 to 15000 dendritic
connections between each being possible, we would run out of
fundamental particles in the universe before we could exhaust our
connection machine's possibilities- yet, perhaps, it is also more than
simply a neural network? (Bohm- the Implicate Order- something this
quantum physicist and Nobel prize winner saw underlying quantum
physics- is this perhaps another source of pattern unfolding in our
universe?)
Self is constructed through at least ten developmental stages from the
intra-uterine state through to the final stages of enlightenment- are
we generating, selecting and replicating memes at all these levels? My
guess would be that it is at least that complex.
Dr Robin Wood
Genetic Systems Ltd
-----Original Message-----
From: bbenzon@mindspring.com [SMTP:bbenzon@mindspring.com]
Sent: 11 June 1997 02:26
To: memetics@mmu.ac.uk
Subject: Self as construct
Nick Rose says:
>If 'self' is defined as 'free-will' stuff, then I reject the
>notion that the 'self' can select anything. If 'self' is a
>co-adapted meme complex [and Bill has a point in that we *do*
>need to think about what is the environment for a meme which
>determines it's success] then the 'self' can select memes; memes
>already in situ in the brain are *bound* to bias the acceptance
>and expression of new memes. e.g. the 'meme' "'I' believe that
>faith is good, testing things is bad." will bias the system into
>accepting certain types of memes and rejecting others.
>
One can certainly think about the self as a social construct which
human
being use for a variety of purposes.
A number of years ago a guy (named Gallup I believe) did some very
interesting experiments with macaque monkeys and chimpanzees. He
sedated
them and put some orange dye on one ear. Then they were placed in
cages
where they could observe themselves in a mirror. After awhile -- and
it
might take days -- the chimps would notice that they had a strange
orange
spot on one ear and they'd investigate it in the mirror. The
macaques
never did that.
Then there is Vicki, one of the first chimps raised among humans. She
was
given a stack of photos of people and of chimps. Among the people
where
the ones who raised here. Among the chimps was a picture of herself.
She
had the task of sorting the photos into 2 piles. She put all the
humans in
one pile and all the chimps in another, except one. She put her own
photo
in the pile with the humans.
What, if anything, do these observations indicate about the
construction of
self?
>Once we reject the notion of 'free-will' selecting memes, then
>the question becomes; what is?
A brain with infinite computing power.
William L. Benzon 201.217.1010
708 Jersey Ave. Apt. 2A bbenzon@mindspring.com
Jersey City, NJ 07302 USA http://www.newsavanna.com/wlb/
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This was distributed via the memetics list associated with the
Journal of Memetics - Evolutionary Models of Information Transmission
For information about the journal and the list (e.g. unsubscribing)
see: http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit